Category: News and Views
That's right people. It's time we email the people with inaccessible sites we use and tell them we will not stand for this. just because we can not see the screen does not mean we should be excluded from use of these sites. I'm going to point out one site in particular. myspace.com is a big offender of this. let me tell you why. if you want to change your password there is a capcha. what shit!!! this has gotta end!!! hell, if you even want to creat an acount, capchas. it's time to take five minutes out of your day and email these people. i've emailed them a few times but nothing has happened. no responces or nothing. i feel if we all do this, myspace will wake up and smell the coffee. or we tell them that there in violation of the web accessibility laws. and the disability equality act. It's time we make a change and let our voices be heard. I thank you for reading this topic.
look at who owns myspace and make a guess at whether they will listen, that's all I will say.
I completely understand with your frustrations with getting around the capcha on various programs. I'm unfamiliar with the program you're mentioning but I will say as a partially sited person that i totally hate those fuckin things. Yes most of them I can see my way around the capcha and it's primarily all good but sometimes I'm not as fast with typing in the associated numbers. Now with my eyes closed that would be trouble. I will tell you that it's not just a matter of seeing your way around some of these but to be fast enough to enter the corresponding numbers on the screen and keep typing and looking as the screen changes. Some capcha isn't as bad if your speech can speak out what it wants you to put in. I've seen ones where they might ask a simple math question. This is common when you set up some webmail programs. I'm guessing that the link in some of those boxes directing you to contact them if you can't read it are not helpful. I already know that with out even looking at it. I suppose sometimes they'll write you back for confirmation and verification if it's for webmail but they don't all do that. So yes you are in a kind of a rut I guess. So I'll let you know that you have a sited person supporting your stand. I'm with you all the way because I've often had problems with friends of mine with whom I've had to visit to help them threw some of this. It makes you feel more handicapped. I really hope someone does heed your cries. I've had to help people with things around aim, grail, hotmail, aol, the list never ends. Just a question to those using Braille screens. Can you see around the capcha easier than say a jaws user? Even if there was a reasonable answer I'm sure people aren't going to steal, beg and borrow to buy a Braille display but even at school when I used a Braille screen it goes with out saying that I looked on the lap top monitor as well as using my fingers. So I had the best of both worlds. As this was in the old dos days, I wasn't on line doing stuff. Well good luck!
thank you. and yes, ok some big jocks own the site but it should not matter. just the other day the blind access journal reported that free credit report .com changing there capchas. the owner of the blind access journal and i have been in comunication over this issue and he will include it in the blog soon. thank you to darel for this. like i say, i'm not asking for much and don't even give me that i'm looking for a hand-out because i am not. i'm just asking to have the liberty of changing my password or creating an acount on a site without capchas. or make a group or what have you.
Yes. I totally agree with you. I love myspace but hate how I can't even change my damn password... I too have emailed them and they haven't ever replied. It is quite annoying. I would love to know what else I can do to get my thoughts and feelings on this heard... So I too support your cause!
Michelle
hey guys. i read something on the blind plannet rss news feed about capcha killer. but of course that site is against myspace's terms of service. what capcha killer is is it basically gets around capchas. can't remember the exact url but i'll find it and post it.
how does it get you around it? I'm guessing you've played with it? As I stated before in another post, even being able to see the crap for typing it in, it's too much. I'm sure for the rest of you since you might have better short term memories that it would be no problem assuming this new tHow does that program help you around it? I'm guessing you've played with it? As I said in a previous post even being able to see the crap for typing it in, it's too much. I know for a lot of you who should probably have good short term memories it's no problem but hopefully this thing somehow talks you around it.
well at the same time as relying on looking as you write I didn't that time. It shows huh?
I'm not a member of MySpace, but I'm a member of another site...Owned by the same people; (I Think)? However, when I wrote them I too got no response...I didn't get rude about it; though it's tempting; (especially when they don't bother and respond to your first message).
I don't know I wasn't in on the whole myspace craze when it took off a few year back so I doubt i'll start now.
I wasn't either, but I'm into wrestling, and when I found a site devoted to wrestling fans I thought..."Cool, that would be nice...To talk with fans..."But, as I said before, I think it's owned by the same ones who own myspace, and they do not even bother to respond to simple enquiries...
now it's gone too fucking far. check this out you guys. I tried to log in to myspace and now they have a fucking capcha to log in. fuck myspace. i defanatly like facebook now. myspace has gone too far. it's a good thing i can't log in or else i would cancel my acount. now we need to do something for sure. i don't know if this is a bit of permanant but this shit has gone way too far now. if i can't log in to a fucking site without a capcha we have a problem. I was happy the way it was before. i'd give anything not to have a capcha just to log in. if you all try to log in to myspace let me know what you get. i bet you can't now. thank you all for reading.
i'm sorry you all for the previous post. it seems that my firefox was fucking up and i had to clear the cash. i'm sorry. it was not myspace's fault. it turns out i can log in now. thank you.
You scared me for a sec. I have heard sites doing that though.
capcha killer.com is a site which allows one to upload a capcha to the site and then tht site decodes it reveals the numbers and letters for easy reading. I have heard that some blind people have used the site with success. A blind person would have to find the graphic and copy it to the clipboard. Then they would paste it in the proper place on the capcha killer website and there it is. I personally haven't done it yet.
hey guys. i think the web vissum guys read this or something... you all need to check web visum and switch to firefox... it only will work on firefrox :).
Hello,
I believe, that it's time for me to rant, so here it goes.
You mentioned the "exclusion" of "us."
The exclusion isn't done out of prejudice generally, but out ot not knowing.
First, myspace employs captia in order to stop bots from spamming the hell out of people.
This is the main reason why the thing was invented in the first place.
So, rather than say "OMG, I'm blind. and you must make your site accessible." Why don't you get off your ass and think of a solution.
I'll tell you what's going to happen.
You automatically go in, and demand that this site be changed to suit your needs.
When the fuck did life start coming on a golden platter?
Maybe it's you that needs to wake up and smell the coffee.
Rather than demand that they fix it, for the primary reason that your blind figure out a solution to the problem.
A great idea would be audio captia.
I know many people complain about these as well, but it is a step toward a solution.
Second, you're throwing the laws around as if anyone cares.
Most of these sites aren't even located in the us, therefore ADA and what ever other laws are around more than likely won't apply to them.
So, rant over. To sum it all up, bitching isn't the solution.
Noone said life was easy being blind, but you're going to get more respect out of a lot of people if you are negociable over being demanding that people accomidate your every mneed and wim.
Being blind means that you get to adapt. OMG, what a concept. It doesn't mean that you get to sit around and sound like a bunch of old ladies bitching over coffee, and pass patitions around that beg for everyone's attention because someone is treating you unfairly.
There are other solutions out there, captia killer is a great step toward one of them.
rant over.
I gotta agree with the creator. Bitching is gonna get u nowhere. This is another reason y i no longer use myspace, facebook has one captcha, and then they send a text message to your phone, u put that in, and that disables all the other captchas.
I agree that we shouldn't be bitching about it, but I think some sites need to put more effort into making the audio captchas more understandable. Aim has one, and it soulds like 10 different voices speaking at the same time. If that's supposed to be helpful, then I don't know what to say. But I agree with Mike, if you don't like the way a site does something, then find another one that will do the same thing for you that's easier to get around. I used to use yahoo for my email. Then one day it started asking me for captchas every time I would send a message. So I said screw that and switched to gmail, and haven't had a problem since.
The thing we need to understand with audio is this:
They have to make it somewhat hard to understand, because bots can just use audio recognission.
The thing we have to understand about audio captias is this:if you can't understand the audio, then it's not serving it's purpose of keeping out bots, and it's now keeping out would be users.
And, What about people who Can't see the captia, or hear it?
I don't believe I've read any bitching on this board.
As far as suggesting solutions to the problem, that can only be done once the "bigshots" have shown interest in listening to the problem in the first place. What's being stated here is that no one is listening, not that there are not any good solutions being suggested.
I look at it this way. Some complaining is OK, long as it's reasonable and well-thought-out. When you start complaining for its own sake or in a panic state, then you start crossing a line. Sometimes we blind folks can be a little too hard on the world as well as ourselves, so I think a general lightening up is in order. I also do not think that people who design websites are not barring the blind from using them on purpose. It's more a matter of people perhaps assuming blind people just wouldn't go to their site, or even worse, don't even have computer access at all, since the sighted use video displays and mice, it must be the only way things can be done, yes? So people are just not thinking about us much when designing websites.
I also don't think internet petitions and chain letters are effective at all for solving any problem or making any change, but I could be wrong.
the "It's time we stand up." signifies someone is bitching. Or sounding like some old ladies sitting around at coffee.
Chainletters are totally unaffective--I've gotten a few from blind people regarding stuff I've helped work on, and they just went directly to the trash.
I new the program was accessible, so I didn't have much to worry about.
As for getting the people to listen, demands aren't the way to go.
If you just start demanding things, they see you as bitchy and don't want to take the time out of their day to listen to someone demanding things.
"It's time we stand up!" this sounds like a bunch of old ladies at coffee, and bitching? These must be some militant grannies who can probably get things done.
Social network sites are exactly that, social network sites, and the truth is that if no one complains, if no one brings the issue to the attention of who ever is in charge, the issue will go on unresolved.
One should not expect things to be handed to them on a silver platter, and that is exactly why one should stand up, and bring those issues forward.
No one is whining, which seems to be what the opposition is about. The claim here is legitimate.
It is legitimate, and the point here is not to sound like we're demanding everything be handed to us, it's about making sure the internet doesn't become even more inaccessible. What if we lose access to the sites we can get into? It's about keeping what we have, and hopefully improving it, not demanding a totally different system just because we're blind. I agree that internet petitions don't usually work, because they don't really mean anything. A real petition with real signatures is much more powerful. Just looking at words someone wrote on a computer doesn't quite have that effect. But we do have a right, just as sighted people do, to access whatever websites we want, and we shouldn't be restricted from them just because we're blind. No, I don't think sighted people are doing it on purpose either, but they are being ignorant by not being more sensitive to the needs of everyone.
i agree with the creator and guess what. i did something. i had a prog witch could get past capchas. hahahahhahahahahah so there you go. i got fed up and found a way around it. but of course web visum also found a way around it and made a plugin for firefox. so there you go. prob solved.
topic closed as far as i know. you gotta put your skills to work and i did. bitching gets you no where witch i have learned. thanks to a few friends of mine. i also learned that in this world you have to make your own way. people do not have to hand it to you. you get what you put in. capchas are not that bad. you have to be diligent and find a way around them. whether it be working with a site admin or what have you to make it better or having someone help you with the acount or whatever. going on a site bitching about gets you no where. it's like saying "oh i have a cell phone and it does not talk so you have to build a talking phone for me." fuck that, get off your lazy bitch ass and make money and buy one. things don't fall in your lap and that is what i have learned. i have a job, i put all my ssi in savings. the reason i got a job is because i wanted my own apartment witch i do not have but i am saving so i can improve my life and be a good citizen and live my life as independently as possible.
i know i am picking on myself because i started this topic. i realize i was immature in doing so and i appoligize. i have learned a lot since then. thank you.
Hello,
I didn't want it to sound rude, but we can't just demand it, is all I was saying.
A friendly letter, like...
"I'm blind, and use a screen reader. This allows me to read the text on the screen and outputs it to speech so I am able to access the computer. Browsing through your site, I see that there are captias. This makes it unaccessible because... (explain why), and a good solution might be... (another explaination.), I'd like to be acle to access the site..." etc etc.
If you just jump in, and say "Your site is unaccessible, I'm suing you." You won't make it any farther, than the single letter.
Just my views, and experiences.
Congrats on the apartment and etc to, btw. That's awesome, and good luck.
I would never suggest suing anyone either. That gets you nowhere except you lose respect from everyone you know because you weren't big enough to face the problem and handle it in a mature way. People sue each other so they can say "ha ha, I'm better than you" when in reality all that does is show how much of a desperate loser you are, desperate because you want money that's not rightfully yours. But I guess that's a whole other topic.
Legal action should always be considered the very last resort in these situations. There are far more effective ways to deal with such problems.
Personally, I think most of these situations can be resolved by a letter something like the example posted above.
While it is a good thing that there are programs out there to get around captias, one can't can't rely on these programs. What if they stop working, or if the sites figure out a way to secure themselves from such programs?
The point is, the problem of captias will still persist.
If one does not speak up, they will not be noticed. And then, who can we blame when everything is innaccessible
Good points. I definitely agree that you have to be nice about it and not whine and bitch, because that's the only way you might be heard. So I guess we'll see what happens as more websites become aware of the problem, or choose to ignore it. It really depends on what the companies are willing to do, as well as how we as blind people come across to them.